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BlackChampagne -- no longer new; improvement also in question.: Too good for you! And me...



Tuesday, July 21, 2009  

Too good for you! And me...


Interesting lunch date yesterday, with a woman I met via an online dating site. The whole story of her situation is a fascinating one, but isn't something I want to go into here. Very briefly; she's 29, from India, and moved to the US last year to live with a husband she met via an "arranged" marriage. She'd met him when he came to visit pre-marriage in India, and she was committed to being a good wife and loving him, etc. All the fairy tale stuff girls grow up dreaming about.

Well, that lasted about an hour after she got to America, when she almost immediately realized he'd been lying to her, that he was in love with an American woman, and that he had wanted an Indian wife as a sort of cultural duty/obligation. He probably hoped/thought having her might enable him to change/settle down/feel like a good son/etc, but it didn't.

The weird part is that he's fine staying married, covering all her bills, giving her spending money, etc... but he hasn't seen her in three months, they haven't been "intimate" since last year shortly after she arrived in the US, and he's encouraging her to date and try to find another man to marry. (She wants to meet a rich US citizen and marry him, since she loves living here.) If they divorce she'd have to return to India, since he's not a citizen; he's just here on a Visa. The whole situation is crazy, and the immigration issues and work permit she's after and other bureaucratic stuff is crazier. But that's not what I want to talk about (though it's primarily what we talked about during our 3 hour lunch).

What I found most interesting about our conversation is her online dating history. She's a beautiful woman, and has a fantastic, slender body (5'3", 105lbs, but still sort of curvy), and a very sultry, breathy voice, especially with her Indian accent. I wasn't totally smitten by her (for various personality reasons, more than physical attractiveness) but I can imagine a lot of men would be. Even though the photos she's posted on her profile don't show her off to her best extent, and there's no voice option either.

That established, she's been on the dating service for about a month, and has received 60 or 70 emails/winks. The greatest flood came in during the first couple of weeks, but she said she's still getting 2 or 3 almost every day. I was impressed by that (I've received about 25-35 in 9 months, at least half of them obvious scams.) and more impressed by the fact that I was the first man she'd liked enough to actually meet. I don't think of myself as an especially eligible bachelor, especially not for her, since while I have some desirable traits, they don't really match up with what this woman wanted. (High income and a desire for immediate marriage.)

What, you might wonder, did I do to win her over (as far as I won, which wasn't very)? Timing helped. She mailed me almost a month ago, during the time that my membership was inactive, in her first or second day on the service. Before she started getting all of her incoming mails, and she said that she hadn't done much searching or mailing since then, since all the contacts were coming to her. (I'd never seen her come up on one of my searches, but if I had I'd have clicked through to her profile but not mailed her.)

Temporal coincidence aside, she liked that my profile photo had me in a dress shirt and a tie, that I didn't have any semi-naked or drunken party photos in my other pictures, that my profile was long and detailed and made me sound like I wasn't a player, and that when we traded a couple of emails I didn't make any comments about her beauty, sexiness, etc. (Not that I didn't notice it, but I've been lucky enough to socialize with a fair number of beautiful women, and have learned a few things about what men do that annoys them.

Of the 60 or 70 men who had tried (and failed) to interest her, she said about half were immediately ruled out for being too old, young, divorced, or had kids already. She had set those as iron clad rules. Of the 30~ remaining, about 25 eliminated themselves by being rude or crude or clueless. Remarking about nothing but her looks (she giggled wildly that one man had asked her bra size), making it clear they just wanted sex, talking down to her or treating her like an idiot/child, etc. Which left about 5, whom she'd gone so far as to speak with on the phone. They all D/Qed themselves during the conversation, mostly for doing the same stuff the others did in email. She said two guys had immediately started talking about how sexy her voice was, and the others had just sounded dumb, or had done all the talking and not let her get a word in. Which left me, the one out of the 70 or so not to do anything stupid enough to drive off this lonely, friendly, curious, intelligent woman. And that's despite the fact that I wasn't anywhere near the richness level she wanted, and didn't lie to her about how much I wanted to get married and have kids by like, Halloween.

I was fascinated to hear how blatantly most guys fucked up their courtship attempts, since I didn't think I'd done anything all that special or clever to woo her. I hadn't told her lies, I hadn't tried to flatter her, and I wasn't that crazy for her. Perhaps that helped; that I was looking at it as a curiosity, rather than my heart's greatest desire, so I didn't try too hard and trip over my own feet, as so many of the other guys had.

It also helped that I'm... not a complete idiot. Or culturally clueless. The IG was raised in the Bay Area, but she's half-Indian and we talk about culture all the time. Plus I've read some books about Indian culture, and it's not all that different than Filipino culture (Malaya was Pinay), in that both are religious, culturally-conservative, and fairly patriarchal. That one is Catholic and the other Hindu is irrelevant; it's not what version of the FSM a culture adheres to, it's how they shape the ancient rules of their faith to support the male-dominated "traditional" society.

So, I had a fairly good idea what sort of things would appeal to a woman who had grown up in India. Or at least I knew the things that would immediately turn her off, chief amongst them talking about sex -- in the initial contacts at least. We actually talked a great deal about sexual issues over lunch, and she found the topic fascinating. But it was in the context of curiosity and sexuality in American culture, rather than a stranger slobbering over her via an online dating site. I also knew to treat her like an adult and listen to what she said. True, that's good advice for dealing with anyone, male or female, but I knew she'd been talked at by males her entire life, including her husband, and that she would not take kindly to it from a potential suitor.

All that said, what did it get me? Aside from an interesting lunch and some fascinating conversation/blog material/human nature insight? Nothing, really. But it was more valuable (and a less expensive date) than most of the others I've lined up via online dating, and I certainly enjoyed it more. I don't know if it's going to happen, but we tentatively talked about remaining friends and seeing each other now and then for some conversation and consultation. I gave her some advice on her profile (in terms of how things she said would be viewed by American men) and she talked about what she liked in mine, and of course she imparted a great deal of info about how men approach women via the online dating, some amount of which I summarized in this post.

I don't think I can apply anything directly from her comments to my ongoing online dating efforts, though. I already knew the attractive women received a regular deluge of emails and winks, and I already knew that talking about their looks or bringing up sex in the initial contacts was a bad idea. (I'm sure there are some dumb/vulnerable/slutty women who might go for that, but I've not met them and I'm not looking for them.) I was not aware of just how poorly most men played the "getting to know you" game, but that knowledge has been more depressing than invigorating. Depressing for my opinion of the male half of the human race in general, depressing for thinking about what heterosexual women have to put up with in this world, and depressing for the fact that I've not had more success with my online dating, if that's the kind of idiocy I'm competing against.

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Comments:

http://www.27bslash6.com/bellymessage.html


 

A prime reason I don't spend much time/effort on emails before moving to at least a phone call, and ideally that's only a way to check for massive horribleness before moving to some kind of in person meeting. That's mostly to avoid time vampires, since I've found there's almost no predicting in person chemistry and dynamics from emails, so there's essentially no point in spending time on emails before I know if we're going to click face to face. And I'm not there to make penpals.

As for scams, I've not had anyone try anything that amusing. The scams I've seen are when I get a wink or a very short message from a "woman" who has a model-pretty photo (almost always just one), often in a foreign country (China, quite often) and very little personal info in her profile.

If I reply (through the anonymous dating service mail function) I get a short message asking for my email so we can talk privately. I've never bothered to play along any further to see what kind of Nigerian 419, mail-order bride, whatever, they're trying to run.

The tricky thing is that I have met, in person, 6 or 8 really pretty women through this service. They were the woman in their photos. So it's not like all "too good to be true" possibilities actually are too good to be true. I don't imagine I'd ever write on my tummy and send out the photos, though. At least not before a personal meeting. *cough*


 

Is it possibly an age thing? As I sit here in my mid-30s, I feel pretty confident that I can talk to women. I would even feel comfortable, now, approaching attractive women that I probably wouldn't have dared to 10 years ago (not that it would matter now, what with a growing bald spot and an extra 30 pounds). But back then...I really wouldn't have. Heck, I remember a couple of times (seared into my memory, unfortunately) of attractive women approaching me at bars but I was too shy/clueless to act on it. By the time I met my wife, I must have been getting better-or something. As usual, youth is wasted on the young.

But I had a similar experience with online dating, where my wife had like 5 dates in 7 days, whereas I wasn't getting 5 dates in a year. And while I eventually won the courtship, as she related stories about her other dates (one guy spent like two hours talking to her about his military vehicle model collection, or something like that) I couldn't help but be underwhelmed. *THAT* was my competition? Why did it take me so long again?

Anywho, the good news, Flux, is that it only takes one. I consider myself very happily married, with zero interest in entering the dating scene again. (Wait...I'm a guy. OK, 1%)

[Security word is "pologemi," which kind of looks like polygamy.]


 

A few years ago, I came up with a little experiment. I found a picture of an attractive girl and made a fake account on plentyoffish.com. I didn't send any emails, I just waited for them to come to me. It was fascinating. All my self-doubt went out in the window after about 10 emails.

If you ever have a few spare minutes and want a laugh/educational experience, I suggest trying that. Just being able to type a coherent sentence puts you in the top 1 percentile.


 

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