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	BlackChampagne -- no longer new; improvement also in question.: Tae Kwon Do follow up. Monday, September 19, 2005 Tae Kwon Do follow up. Much to my relief, a couple of readers wrote in with comments on Tae Kwon Do, rebutting many of the conclusions I arrived at after watching (and blogging about) a TKD tournament on Saturday. First was Erik, who posted his thoughts in a comment. Quoting part of them: ..there are 2 styles, the WTF style, that you see at the olympics, and the ITF style. (that hopefully becomes olympic in 2012). In WTF style, full contact, it is allowed to kick someone knockout, but it is not allowed to punch someone in the face. Punches arent seen very much in this style, mostly kicks. In ITF style, semi-contact, it is not allowed to knock someone out. It is allowed however to punch someone in the face. Here punches are seen quite often. I am not sure how it is with protection in the USA, but in Europe the WTF style use a chest protector and helmet, ITF style uses hand and foot-equipment. A helmet is allowed as well. I'm glad to hear that there are (at least) two styles, since the tournament style we saw was not very impressive. I also like that one of them abbreviates as "WTF," since that was pretty much what Malaya and I thought after watching a pair of teenaged boys in heavy padding trade ineffective stomach kicks for an entire match. (They are actually the initials of the two different governing bodies with differing rules; the World Taekwondo Federation and the International Taekwondo Federation.) The tournament we saw was apparently in the WTF style, since virtually no one punched, and those that did aimed them only at the chest. I also heard from Marty, who had a lot to say. He's been taking TKD for 3 years: Like most other martial arts, mainstream Tae Kwon Do teachings are divided into two categories: free-sparring and forms. The free-sparring that you saw is the most sport-like aspect of Tae Kwon Do, while the other area involves choreographed forms, fighting drills, throws, defence against weapons, and that sort of stuff. This other category includes the "this will kill someone" type of stuff; in one form, for example, a Tae Kwon Do student punches two impaginary "oppenents" in the solar plexus, breaks both of their legs at the knee, and crushes the second opponent's windpipe. This exact content of this category of TKD teachings varies depending on the school and the teacher one learns from. The sparring as you described it is not typical of Tae Kwon Do, either. While Tae Kwon Do might not have as many fancy, elaborate moves as Kung Fu, a good sparrer will be able to use (and use quite often) a wider variety of kicks and strikes than you saw. TKD sparring mainly focuses on kicks, but sparrers can still use hand strikes in ways besides scoring points. Also, good TKD sparrers always take advantage the energy of their opponents. The key to success is figuring out how your opponent will react to your advances before they even have the chance to do it themselves. A free, open tournament like the one you went to probably didn't have the highest level of sparring. The point of my rather long-winded lecture is that in Tae Kwon Do, sparring is seen as just another exercise to improve a student's control, confidence, and physical endurance. It is much different than the style of fighting that a TKD student would use in a real fight. We practice THAT type of stuff as realistically as we can without mortally injuring anyone, but it is not something that is done competitively. Sparring is only one aspect of Tae Kwon Do teachings. With all of this in mind, Tae Kwon Do is actually just as good (better, of course, in my opinion) as any other martial art for kids to learn. The important part of learning martial arts is not which one you do, but how you learn it. In my experience, many commercial youth martial arts schools focus on earning belts, because parents want their kids to have something to show for all the money that is being spent. Groups like the one you go to, and the one I go to at the local YMCA focus more on each student achieving as much as they can, because the teacher isn't paid for each belt test. So good news there all around. I especially agree with his comments about how it's not the martial art, it's the teacher. Malaya and I train in Kali, but we're in a very small school, headed by a master who trained under some famous traditional Kali teachers, but then went his own way when he wanted to advance the art beyond the traditional forms, and didn't have the freedom to do that without starting his own school. In other words, Kali as done anywhere else in the world is likely to be quite different in approach and style from the Kali we're doing. The same is true of other forms, and taking TKD from some strip mall, belt-factory dojo is going to be an entirely different experience than learning it from a true master, or at least from serious experts, like Marty mentions. (True masters are prodigies, and are extremely rare in any discipline; the head of our Kali school is one, and while he knows thousands of other martial artists, he only considers one of them a master, a man who does Kung Fu, and who isn't even teaching it now, largely because he could not find any students he thought worthy of passing his knowledge onto. Fortunately for our edification, our Kali master isn't quite so choosy.) And yeah, as both commenters say, sparring or tournament fighting in TKD is a very specialized style, with very limited rules and styles. Comparing real martial arts, TKD or Kali or anything else, to the tournament stuff we saw is like comparing ultimate fighting to junior boxing, if junior boxing only allowed jabs. (And even ultimate fighting is far more limited than true martial arts or street fighting, since in that sport they aren't allowed to do neck or joint breaks, they don't know pressure points, and they can't do anything really dirty, like eye gouges, biting, etc.) I also like that Marty mentions that he of course thinks TKD is the best style. We feel that way about Kali, based on almost zero comparison, and isn't that the way it should be? After all, if you were doing one form and actually thought another form was better, wouldn't you switch? (You would if your goal was to be the best fighter possible; some people stay with a form they know isn't great just because they've put too much time into learning it already, or because their friends are using it, or whatever.) It reminds me of a short argument I had with someone about my writing years ago. They didn't like a short story I'd posted on the D2 site, I did like it (obviously, since I wrote it and wouldn't have posted it if I'd thought it sucked) and the other person (who had absolutely no ability to write fiction, but could not accept that reality) said something like, "What, you think your writing style is better than mine?" I said, "Of course. Everyone thinks their style is the best, or they'd be writing in a different style. Right?" That bit of logic pretty well shut her up, which was fortunate, since I was annoyed and close to launching into a savage discussion of the shortcomings of her painfully-labored and desperately-precocious writing style. Funny how my posts never end up on the same subject that they began on, isn't it? Posted by: Flux # 6:09 AM Comments: I agree with Marty that TKD is a good form, however it is not always the best. It totally depends on what you want. As a self-defnce, i believe there are more efficient methods, such as Krav Maga. It has nothing to do with sport however, its just about eliminating your opponent. I agree too that it depends on the teacher/ trainer. In ITF-style (which I train in) there are several associations, because the 'chiefs' couldn't agree with each other. It is a shame, but that is another story. The point is that a good trainer (like mine, european champion) knows what he is doing and why he is doing it. And that is one of the tenets of TKD. For more infomation, try the site of TAGB (thats an english one) www.tagb.biz #: 9:32 AM posted by Erik I'd like to hear, in the comments, from people who are currently taking martial arts or if you have taken it in the past. What did you think of your style? Why did you pick it? If you're currently looking at schools/disciplines, what criteria are you judging them by? If you have children, would you allow them to train? Why or why not? Of course, comments about martial arts in general are always welcome. Satisfy my curiousity. =) #: 4:55 PM posted by Malaya something interesting to note is that kungfu is not a style of martial arts, or atleast should not be. Because kungfu (or atleast the real chinese words attached to that name) means Martial Arts =) #: 6:52 PM posted by Vinsant Well "kali" means "sword" in the literal translation from Tagalog. The art isn't entirely about using swords though, and in fact plenty of forms of Kali (most Escrima, for example) never use swords at all. #: 7:47 PM posted by Flux Dear Malaya, it's easy for me to say that i would pick taekwondo again. However, i am interested in other forms as martial arts as well. Its very interesting so the similarity's (did i spell that correctly?) and the differences of the styles. Most types of selfdefence are based on the same principle, hitting someone in weak spots and pressure points. The reason i picked this sport is quite easy, its about 5 minutes walking from my house. I would advice it for children. Not only do they stay fit (and flexible) they become more confident and learn how to react in 'dangerous' situations. Especially for children that are being bullied (or in order to prevent it) Taekwondo, or some other martial arts, are very good. Of course the practice comes with pain, but no one said life would be easy. For more information, just ask. #: 7:18 AM posted by Erik I've done Judo previously, when I was younger. Something about it appealed to me more than trying to kick someone in the face. The whole balance aspect was interesting to me. I've always had good balance and Judo using balance and throws just seemed like a fit for me so I tried it and really enjoyed it. I didn't end up progessing terribly far, as the class was exceptionally small and then I took a break for a couple weeks (not long before I would have tried to get my orange belt) the sensei decided to cancel it because the numbers were so small. He said some of the other students stopped coming while I was taking a break. I was quite disappointed. I've looked to take it up again, specifically after moving to a new town, but there are absolutely no places that teach Judo. None of the nice small groups with a real teacher like I used to have, no cookie-cutter schools. If you want TKD though, well there are about 5 schools to choose from in this relatively small town. #: 11:11 AM posted by Vamino you should try out Judo, that's my martial art of choice. There's not too much striking, but it's practical as well since it's all grappling, arm locks, pressure points, chokes, etc. Course you have to be pretty high in belt to learn pressure points. Those are nasty. I am intrigued by your constant discussion of Kali, and Im looking for a place in Chicago (where Im from) to try it out. Keep up the rocking site flux. #: 12:56 PM posted by jeff Post a Comment << Home Archives May 2005 June 2005 July 2005 August 2005 September 2005 October 2005 November 2005 December 2005 January 2006 February 2006 March 2006 April 2006 May 2006 June 2006 July 2006 August 2006 September 2006 October 2006 November 2006 December 2006 January 2007 February 2007 March 2007 April 2007 May 2007 June 2007 July 2007 August 2007 September 2007 October 2007 November 2007 December 2007 January 2008 February 2008 March 2008 April 2008 May 2008 June 2008 July 2008 August 2008 September 2008 October 2008 November 2008 December 2008 January 2009 February 2009 March 2009 April 2009 May 2009 June 2009 July 2009 August 2009 September 2009 October 2009 November 2009 August 2010 February 2011

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